November 6, 1999

CLEVELAND—There may not be anything new under the sun, but every generation rearranges the world in ingenious ways that could not be imagined by their forebears. This is no less true of the ecumenical movement. As we celebrate 50 years of life together in the NCC, we are acutely aware of being on the cusp of the third millennium and of a new generation that will remake ecumenism for a new time.

At the same time, we celebrate connections between the generations, continuity, and the gifts of history. Our future leaders belong to the ecumenical family and they have a rich inheritance that can support new and exciting developments.

To honor two people who have helped to build that inheritance and who were present at the Council's birth, we offer the following interviews with Bishop J. Clinton Hoggard of the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church and Bishop James K. Mathews of The United Methodist Church. We hope their reminiscences, their hopes and their cautions may encourage participants of all ages in the Anniversary Celebration to explore our past for the sake of the future.

A view from J. Clinton Hoggard

Like many who attended the NCC's Constituting Convention in Cleveland in 1950, Bishop J. Clinton Hoggard has an indelible memory of the giant snowstorm that very nearly wrecked the meeting. "I went to the meeting from my pastorate in Yonkers, New York," he recalls. "But we couldn't go out for the first day because the Northeast was snowbound."

Despite the logistical nightmare created by the storm, its seemed that nothing could stop the event, because the creation of the National Council of Churches was an idea whose time had come. "It was a triumphant thing," Bishop Hoggard says. "It was Protestantism making a grand display to America and the world.

"In the public auditorium, we saw the pageantry that was enacted with all the communions heads, their banners, and the clergy in all their attire. I had a sense that unity was coming and it was a oneness in the life of America via the Church and her many members."

He also recalls "a cooperative spirit among the luminaries [of the Constituting Convention] and the followship group." Among those who most made an impression on the young Clinton Hoggard for their role in the convention were Bishop Henry Knox Sherrill of the Protestant Episcopal Church, Bishop G. Bromley Oxnam of the Methodist Church, Dr. Franklin Clark Fry of the United Lutheran Church in America, Bishop S. L. Greene of the African Methodist Church, Bishop William Jacob Walls of the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church and Bishop Bertram Doyle of the Christian Methodist Episcopal Church (then called the Colored Episcopal Methodist Church). Bishop Hoggard also mentions Dr. Harold Stassen, then President of the University of Pennsylvania, who addressed the convention on the moral issues raised by the use of the atomic bomb.

A broad 'followship' made for diversity

Throughout the Council's early years, "the followship group was made up of pretty broad representation" delegated by the communions and their many agencies, Bishop Hoggard notes. The sheer size of the group allowed for a degree of diversity and for grassroots links that are diminished today, he maintains. Referring to the pre-1970s reorganization and downsizing, he says, "They had all these representatives from the various communions, each of whom was invited to bring others, and I thought that the impact on American life was much more grassroots related. By reducing the numbers of persons who represent denominational interests on various boards, you don't get the broad perspective of those who are really doing the grassroots work in the various communities."

In more recent years, he says, "there have been times of great witness and I think the NCC has been on target in its pronouncements to the government. But after it makes its pronouncement, if it gets down to the grassroots level¾the community¾I am not aware of it."

The historic black churches

Bishop Hoggard emphasizes that African American churches were integral to the founding of the NCC and were already part of its predecessor bodies. "The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church had been part of the old Federal Council of Churches when it was organized," he says. And he, himself, represented his communion at the Foreign Missions Conference of North America, another one of the eight bodies that merged their work in the Council in 1950. "There could not have been any NCC without the presence of the historic Black churches," he says. "They were of the body of Christ¾you couldn't go forward without them."

"It was thought that this would not only be a unifying influence on social justice and human rights in the life of the church, but would impact on American life," he adds. And in fact he credits the Council as being "very effective in the '60s." He recalls the leadership of Eugene Carson Blake with the NCC's Commission on Religion and Race, and "the NCC's embrace of Martin Luther King, Jr.," but also recalls that these actions "antagonized" many American churchgoers at the time.

White withdrawal

An even more troubling division, he says, became apparent during the days of the Black power movement, which, in the church, took the form of James Forman's "Black Manifesto," demanding $500 million in reparations for the complicity of churches in oppression from the time of slavery. Bishop Hoggard does not recall that Mr. Foreman "was identified with organized church life" but nevertheless "the challenge was made [to the churches]." What was most disheartening, he says, was "the attitude of many whites within the Protestant structure who said, 'OK, we'll fund some things and we will withdraw our presence.' "

The consequences of white withdrawal, of which this is but one example, are still with us, he says. We see it in the racial patterns of our communities¾even in the very neighborhoods around NCC offices in New York¾and in the church. Providing a "for instance," Bishop Hoggard says, "Recently, I attended the 10th annual dinner for the Bishop John B. Walker Memorial Fund in Washington to raise money for Africare, but I did not see leaders of the white community there. Then the next week, there was a service at the Washington Cathedral commemorating the life of John B. Walker, the first African American to be consecrated and serve as Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington. It was well supported and well attended and the Black part of the Episcopal Church was overwhelmingly present. Where were the white Episcopalians? We all try to do our own thing. How do we understand the meaning of church unity and cooperative Christian witness?"

"I think there could be some new enthusiasm if the white Protestant constituency takes seriously its commitment to housing, education, job opportunity and an inclusive life in America, without withdrawing," Bishop Hoggard says. "Because every time you create a new community of withdrawal, you also create a community of isolationism, and isolationism does not enable us to be creative enough to make really a unity in the body of Christ."

"I know that life is not all that simple," he continues. "Everyone who came into the NCC brought his or her social and ethnic heritage and economic vested interest. And you had the complications of territorial concerns, labor versus capital and so on, yet all at one point had unity in that they are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. But how you translate your beliefs in society becomes an issue of different interpretation. Those differences are strong, but we ought to be able in the unity of Christ to resolve it, sit around long enough, pray over it, do this and that and the other thing and resolve it rather than withdraw."

The spirit still moves

As for the future, Bishop Hoggard says, "The ideal of the National Council still stands. How to implement it is the challenge of our day. And I think there is more challenge today right now in 1999 as we face the year 2000 than there was actually in 1950. I'm not one who is saying, because I'm getting older, that the old days are the better days. That's not the point. I would like the NCC to be revitalized, but sometimes I think we got lost along the way.

"But I do have hope in the life of the NCC. If I didn't, I would have been out of it a long time ago. I've stayed with it in the face of many frustrations, and surely, in return, I have found through the structure of the NCC a refuge for association with the larger community of believers in Christ. Out of it has come good fellowship, good relationships and also an opportunity for enunciating the concerns about our larger society."

Bishop Hoggard ends with words that sound both a somber note and a hopeful one: "There's a question as to whether Jesus would ever be a member of the things that we put forward in his name. We've got to wait until the judgment to get that answer. But there are those of us who believe the Holy Spirit is still alive in the world, and if we are somewhat effective, we must not justify it of ourselves, but only by the will and mercy of God."

An active Bishop of the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church from 1972-1992, Bishop Hoggard also served from 1952-1972 as Secretary-Treasurer of his communion's Department of Foreign Missions (now the Department of Overseas Missions). And he has held pastorates in congregations in New York, Washington, D.C. and North Carolina. Among his many affiliations, he served on the NCC Governing Board from 1950-1992. In his retirement, he edited The African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church: A Bicentennial Commemorative History 1972-1996, which updated the communion's history to the time of its 1996 bicentennial celebration.